• Home
  • Blog
  • Archive
  • Gallery
  • Letters
    • Our Story
    • People Mentioned
    • Contact
Menu

Sharing The Past

A genealogy adventure sharing family history.
  • Home
  • Blog
  • Archive
  • Gallery
  • Letters
  • About
    • Our Story
    • People Mentioned
    • Contact
The Largest Steamers in the World - Olympic & Titanic

The Largest Steamers in the World - Olympic & Titanic

My Great Grandmother Was Not On The Titanic

March 8, 2016

It's funny what happens when you start writing about your ancestors. Suddenly, cousins appear from across the world (YEAH!) and they begin to share photos, letters, postcards, and stories. One of the most interesting I've heard is that my Great Grandmother Alice was going to return to the US from England aboard the Titanic but she came on an earlier ship. 

At first I thought, oh my! If she had been on the Titanic, I wouldn't be here. Then I remembered the Titanic sank in 1912 and my grandmother was already born, so my existence was secure.

Family stories are fun, but it's important to do the proper research and separate fact from fiction. In this case, Great Grandmother Alice missing a ride on the Titanic? Fiction. But almost, emphasis on almost, possible...

Here's how I came to this conclusion -

The White Star Line S.S. Arabic by Antonio Nicolo Gasparo Jacobsen aka A. Jacobsen.

The White Star Line S.S. Arabic by Antonio Nicolo Gasparo Jacobsen aka A. Jacobsen.

Follow The Passenger Lists

Even though the Titanic sank in 1912, I started with Alice's entry into the U.S. in 1906 because I had some postcard clues and it was important to me to follow all her transatlantic crossings to be sure I'd covered my bases. 

As with all research, I keep my eyes open for macro details and avoid being laser focused on only one question. That way, I don't miss details that could prove important later on. 

My great grandmother Alice Vince Pinborough immigrated to the U.S. aboard the S.S. Arabic on 22 Jun 1906 with her children Winifred, Hilda (my grandmother) and John. For unknown reasons, her husband Frederick, was not able to travel with them but was initially booked on the same journey as listed on the UK Outward Passenger Lists and Massachusetts Boston Passenger Lists 1891-1943 available on FindMyPast.com or FamilySearch.org. 

When I first started doing genealogy research and looked at U.S. Passenger Lists, I only made note of names and dates, I don't do that anymore. There are so many fantastic details that give you insight into your ancestors life. Read everything!

For example, of note on Alice's 1906 entry into the U.S. is her answer to "Whether in possession of $50, and if less, how much?" The record indicates Draft $1499.7 and $1730. This is most interesting (to me) as most of the other second class passengers were in possession of about $30. As a comparison, when her husband Fred arrived later that year, he had only $40. 

1911SSArabicAliceMoney

 

Everyone in Alice's party was listed in good health on the 1906 arrival record except for Hilda, my grandmother. She was listed with Strabismus & cataract right eye. Strabismus - aka Crossed eyes, is failure of the two eyes to maintain proper alignment and work together as a team. She had this in one eye. This is not news to me as I have already heard about this condition, I just found it interesting that it was indicated in the health report. 

Strabismus1911ShipArabic

 

Curious, I read through other passengers health reports. They included Short statured, Corneal Opacity & Partial blind right eye, Chronic blepharitis, senility, hair lip, stutters, acne, debility, eczema.

Everyone on my great grandmother's page and the next were headed to Utah. Perhaps they lined up to leave the ship based on their next destination, or they socialized on the ship based on where they were headed, or she made this journey with one big group of LDS converts?

- Which gives me an idea - 

IF your ancestors were on board the S.S. Arabic that sailed from Liverpool 22 June 1906 and arrived at the Port of Boston 20 June 1906 maybe they knew my great grandmother Alice and you have some story passed down and around the family about the journey to Utah. Please share! Here are some of her Utah bound ship mates:

Henry MacCartney, Leonard Willis, Dorothy Willis, George Crippo, Sarah Ann Crippo, William Henry Robinson, Anne Robinson, Annie Robinson, Charles Vaughn, Marion Vaughn, William J. Vaughn, Henry G. Vaughn, Sarah Elizabeth Vaughn, Harold Vaughan, Robert Vaughan, M Jane Middleton, Albert Middleton, Jane Craig, Ethel Dover Istell, Eva Haslar, Annie Lazenby, Alice Carsey, Harry Oakes, Lina Chipman, Mary A Lambert, Angus Cannon, Miss Fern Chipman, Lewis Gardner, Thomas Simper, Rufus Johnson, Daniel Rich, George Francis Webb, George Braby, Henry Smith, Wilford Beesley, Walter Halversen, Lauritz Christensen (Missionary Scandinavian), Andrew Eliason (missionary), Andrew Lundberg (missionary), Lambert Pack, Norman Stoddard, Charles  

Moving along. 

Fred, her husband arrived 30 June 1906 in Boston Massachusetts aboard the same ship. He sent this card to Alice. 

RMS-Arabic-1906-Postcard

Aug 27 1906 Chicago
Arrived here this morn at 8oclock, am leaving again at 6PM arrive at Kansas City Tuesday morning about 8, enquire at Salt Lake what time we arrive. I am well. Hope you are. Fred.

1911 Alice Returned To England

In 1911, Alice received this postcard from her nephew. 

1911HandsAcrossTheSea-postcard

January 31, 1911 - Dear Aunt I have just had a letter to say that grandma is very bad and the Doctor gives no hope for her. Aunt Annie is up day and night with her hoping all is well. I remain your affectionate Nephew. William

She did not embark on the journey to see her mother until Saturday June 10th 1911. She traveled aboard the White Star Dominion Line R.M.S. Celtic and kept this postcard from that journey. 

1911 R.M.S. Celtic postcard woven in silk. Stevengraph Regd No. 430269. 

1911 R.M.S. Celtic postcard woven in silk. Stevengraph Regd No. 430269. 

Perhaps she did not leave until June because the ships were full. Perhaps she had to save enough money for the journey. Perhaps there were other letters that indicated she did not need to rush. Perhaps she had a troubled relationship with her mother and hesitated to go. This is a detail I will likely never know. 

I suspect the passenger list from her journey in 1911 is what initiated the rumors of her possible Titanic voyage because on the back of the Second Class Passenger List book was this:

Front and back of White Star Line Second Class Passenger List 1911.Advertisement for White Star Line Olympic and Titanic.

Front and back of White Star Line Second Class Passenger List 1911.
Advertisement for White Star Line Olympic and Titanic.

But, following this postcard from Alice to Fred, and checking the passenger lists, Alice returned aboard the SS Arabic from Liverpool to Boston on September 26, 1911.  The White Star Line Titanic departed Southampton on April 10 1912, seven months AFTER Alice left the UK. 

1911 September 26 Liverpool to New York S.S. Arabic

1911 September 26 Liverpool to New York S.S. Arabic

Now, Alice's mother, Hannah Maria Meachen, passed away March 28, 1912 at the age of 80, six months AFTER Alice left the UK. 

Had Alice stayed until her mother's death, perhaps she could have booked passage aboard the Titanic and departed on April 10th from Southampton. But, Alice made all her journeys through Liverpool, and the Titanic did not depart from nor stop there, though it was the port of registry. 

So - while there is a possibility that she could have booked passage aboard the Titanic and been on board that fateful day April 15, 1912. It seems highly unlikely that she "just missed" the journey or even considered departing from Southampton.

To me, this is a family myth busted.

1926 Back to England

I mentioned earlier that I'd check all her transatlantic crossings and even though 1926 is nowhere near 1912, she did return to England in 1926. I suspect to visit family. I do not know her departure date from the US, but I know she returned to the U.S. via Liverpool aboard the R.M.S. Celtic on 14 August 1926. [UPDATE: March 2016, Alice traveled from Montreal to Liverpool on Friday June 4, 1926 aboard the SS Montcalm. Click here to see the passenger list.]

1926WhiteStarLineRMSCeltic

She recorded on the back of a ship postcard her daily latitude and longitude during the journey and made a few notes about the weather that I suspect corresponded to each day. 

Strong wind rough sea
Strong wind rough sea
Mod gale and high sea
Rough to smooth sea
Moderate wind and sea

I do not yet know her primary purpose for the journey, other then to visit family. Her passport was issued June 16, 1926, and the photo captured below on July 11, 1926. I'll have to research more passenger lists to find the day she left.

Using 1926 as a reference, I dug through the old letters I have (thank goodness I sorted them by date), and found some correspondence between Hilda & Alice. I'll scan and post those in a few days.  I know Alice stayed with Elizabeth Vince, her brother's wife, at 52 Old Gravel Lane Wapping E.I. London England. But that's it for now.

11 July 1926 "Your Aunt Lizzie and I just leaving Yarmouth for Newmarket". Taken at Great Yarmouth Gorleston-on-Sea in front of the Lacons Celebrated Yarmouth Ales Barking Smack. Alice is in the back row, second from right. Next to her is her brothe…

11 July 1926 "Your Aunt Lizzie and I just leaving Yarmouth for Newmarket". Taken at Great Yarmouth Gorleston-on-Sea in front of the Lacons Celebrated Yarmouth Ales Barking Smack. Alice is in the back row, second from right. Next to her is her brother William's wife, Elizabeth Thomas.

Bonus Discovery

While tracing Alice's footsteps and transatlantic crossings, I was also searching through photos and one stood out to me. 

Robert-Blair Crosbie Born Dec 10th 1902 and Clara McGeorge Crosbie Born June 21, 1908.

I had been trying to determine who the heck the Crosbie family was and where they fit on our family tree and was not making any connections. Then, as I was reading passenger names in the passenger list, it occurred to me that perhaps some of these photos were people Alice met along the way.

So I guessed the age of the kids in the photo and started scanning the 1911 passenger list to and from the U.K. And there, on the same ship as Alice, the SS Arabic Second Class Passenger List Sailing from Liverpool 26 September 1911, were Clara Crosbie, Clara McGeorge, Robert Crosbie.

Clara Crosbie, Clara McGeorge Crosbie, Robert Blair Crosbie.

Clara Crosbie, Clara McGeorge Crosbie, Robert Blair Crosbie.

A little more digging and I could find no other connection to Alice & Clara. Clara b. 1877 in Birmingham married Blair Crosbie, born in Scotland, around 1901. Their children were born in Harrow Weald Middlesex England. (UK 1911 census). Her husband was already in Boston and it seems that is where they spent the remainder of their lives.

Alice must have met this family aboard aboard the ship. Sadly, I have found no other communication between Alice and Clara, yet. There is still hope!

I have to thank the family tale of Alice missing the Titanic, as because of it, I've realized that for some of these photos with names that are unrelated to me, they just might be on passenger lists from her transatlantic crossings and friends she made along the way! 

So - thanks to Passenger Lists, I've been able to prove that Alice did not just "miss" a journey on the Titanic, was able to identify people in a photo she owned & how they were connected to her, learned how much money Alice arrived in the U.S. with, and discovered that if you were short statured, had acne or a stutter, the U.S. Immigration officers made note of it. 

Until Next Time, Happy Genealogy Hunting!

Laurie

 

Resources

** Alice's Passenger Ships & Passenger List - These are more images, postcards & the complete passenger lists that belonged to Alice. 
Surrey Vintage Vehicle Society - They helped me identify the car in the Great Yarmouth photo as a 1918 Crossley Charabanc. 
FindMyPast - Great resource for all history UK.
Greater Yarmouth - Official Tourism Site. I do hope to get there someday and retrace some of my ancestor's footsteps.
White Star Line - history and additional details on Wikipedia


 

In 1900s, 1910s, 1920s, family history, genealogy, genealogy research tips, vintage postcard Tags ships, titanic, alice vince pinborough
← 1922 Lafayette School Fire - Salt Lake City, UtahStruck by Lightning & Aaron Burr →

Sharing The Past is an adventure in genealogy through the discovery of over 100 years of family history in letters, photos & artifacts.




Instagram

Cruising into 90 with his sweet ride.
Social distancing is not just about your health. My dad’s 90th birthday is just over 2 months away, and I’d really like to celebrate it with him. He has so many more stories to share.... For my dad, and yours, and all the parents and gran
“Whose Getting What?
Judging from the smiling visage of Mr. Atkinson (left), you’d think he was receiving the silverware being distributed above. But, he was merely doing the distributing himself as Dr. Harold Sweezey of First Baptist acc
Me: On the back of the envelope these were in someone wrote "Madge 9, Joyce 9, Lois 9, Innyce 4"  Any idea why? ⠀
Dad: Nope. But that does look like my writing not my mother’s.⠀
Me: Maybe you made them all copies or something. Do you
Easter Greetings! from Jennette to Winifred in 1911 (& Dad and me in 2018)⠀
.⠀
Postcard by E. Nash.⠀
.⠀
#graphicdesign #easter #familyhistory #ancestry #vintagepostcard #design #lithograph #embossedpostcard #sharingthepast
Dad: You think that is me?⠀
Me: Yep. ⠀
Dad: I don’t think that’s me, I didn’t have that much hair.⠀
Me: Sure you did, before you had kids. ⠀
Dad: I’m not sure. And I don't recognize the girl.⠀
Me: Well, it looks like you and t
Dad: What am I taking picture of this stupid bird for?⠀
Me: Oh, everyone takes pictures of birds on a wire because it looks cool.⠀
Dad: It’s a seagull on a pole. ⠀
Me: Maybe you thought it was interesting.⠀
Dad: I don’t know what I though
Dad: Maynard Viot, he’s the guy on the end on the right, and this guy (on the far left), this is Lenny Hesterman, and the guy in the white shirt is Mickey, but I don’t remember his last name. And…who is this guy in the black shirt?
Dad: This is the Grand Canyon of Yellowstone Park, I think. ⠀
Me: Well which is it, the Grand Canyon or Yellowstone Park. ⠀
Dad: It’s the Grand Canyon OF Yellowstone Park.⠀
Me: Aren’t those two different places?⠀
Dad: No, I don’t th
Me: What can you tell me about these kids?⠀
Dad: Never seen them before. ⠀
Me: There is a note stuck to this, “Group 1 - 5 Year Old - Summer 1951 - Ethel Upwall Teacher “ Ring any bells? ⠀
Dad: Looks like they are wearing Indian hats with
Dad: I made one of those airplanes the other one I do not recognize, looks like maybe it has a gasoline motor. One is a rubber band airplane.⠀
Me: How many planes do you think you made when you were a kid?⠀
Dad: The first ones I made weren’t th
Me: This is from the same batch as the MIA Dance Festival, recognize anyone?⠀
Dad: I think the girl standing in the white shirt holding the watermelon is Connie, my dance partner, but I can’t identify the event. ⠀
Me: Were you camping? ⠀
Dad: W
Dad: That’s from the MIA Dance Festival at the University of Utah. ⠀⠀
Me: Why did you have two different suits?⠀⠀
Dad: They are not suits.⠀⠀
Me: Costumes?⠀⠀
Dad: No. ⠀⠀
Me: Tuxedos?⠀⠀
Dad: Well, yes. ⠀⠀
Me: Isn’t a tuxedo the same thing a
Dad: Well, that's me. I’m trying to identify the fish they look like trout… and that is home in the backyard but...the only place that we went fishing that I would have fish like that is Strawberry Reservoir. And I would not remember hav
Me: How about these lovely people? ⠀
Dad: Oh that is easy, that’s Elmer Don and Marilyn Sharples. They are Irene’s kids. And they have a brother whose name does not come to me, he’s deceased now. Oh and that’s Jack. ⠀
Me: I re
Me: Dad, can you tell me the names of all the kids in this class photo?⠀⠀
Dad: Are you kidding me?⠀⠀
Me: I never joke about photos. ⠀⠀
Dad: (giving me the side eye, then sighing heavily as he grabs the magnifying glass) Sheesh! Well, that looks like
Dad: That is Monte Archibald.⠀⠀
Me: Both these photos are of Monte?⠀⠀
Dad: Well yes - who else would be that skinny and ugly? ⠀⠀
Me: Well I don’t know, I never met Monte. ⠀⠀
Dad: No you never did and I don’t know what happened to him. May
Me: So, who’s this lovely lady?
Dad: That’s Velene Bern, I think, but it was Abbott when she married. Her and Malissa used to come up and visit us and we’d go to SaltAir at the Great Salt Lake. 
Me: Do you mean Melissa Gribble, your
Me: Recognize this kid? ⠀
Dad: Well of course that’s me and apparently the dog is my dog Jack. ⠀
Me: There are actually two dogs. ⠀
Dad: You think there are two dogs? Well, I see my hand down there, yep, that’s a dog but I don’t rem

Ads

Recent Posts

Featured
Brisbane November 1945 Sushannah to Ben
Brisbane November 1945 Sushannah to Ben
Brisbane July 1945 Sushannah to Ben
Brisbane July 1945 Sushannah to Ben
Australia Ward Building .jpg
Brisbane June 1945 Sushannah to Ben
BrisbaneAustraliaHouse.jpg
Brisbane May 1945 - The House Where Ben Lived & Edith Haskins
Brisbane February 1945 - Three Deaths, New Relatives and a Map of Australia
Brisbane February 1945 - Three Deaths, New Relatives and a Map of Australia
Brisbane Nov. 1938 - A Family Secret
Brisbane Nov. 1938 - A Family Secret
1931-MaryDraiseyAtkinson
Brisbane September 1933 - Death & Quarantine
It's Been Too Long! Meet Sushannah Haskins.
It's Been Too Long! Meet Sushannah Haskins.
Ipswich 1937: Jim & Polly Witter (part 10 of 10)
Ipswich 1937: Jim & Polly Witter (part 10 of 10)
Ipswich 1936: Jim & Polly Witter (part 9 of 10)
Ipswich 1936: Jim & Polly Witter (part 9 of 10)
Ipswich 1931: Jim & Polly Witter (Part 8 of 10)
Ipswich 1931: Jim & Polly Witter (Part 8 of 10)
Ipswich 1930: Jim & Polly Witter (Part 7 of 10)
Ipswich 1930: Jim & Polly Witter (Part 7 of 10)
Ipswich 1929: Jim & Polly (Part 6 of 10)
Ipswich 1929: Jim & Polly (Part 6 of 10)
Ipswich: Jim & Polly (Part 5 of 10) 1927 Ipswich
Ipswich: Jim & Polly (Part 5 of 10) 1927 Ipswich
Ipswich: Jim & Polly Witter (Part 4 of 10) 1924-1925
Ipswich: Jim & Polly Witter (Part 4 of 10) 1924-1925
Ipswich: Jim & Polly Witter - Postcards (part 3 of 10)
Ipswich: Jim & Polly Witter - Postcards (part 3 of 10)
Ipswich: Jim & Polly Witter (part 2 of 10)
Ipswich: Jim & Polly Witter (part 2 of 10)
Meet Jim & Polly Witter (part 1 of 10)
Meet Jim & Polly Witter (part 1 of 10)
What A Little Photo Restoration Can Lead To - The Story of Martha Jane Atkinson
What A Little Photo Restoration Can Lead To - The Story of Martha Jane Atkinson
Hello Again! Plus a letter from Tilly - WWII London 1940
Hello Again! Plus a letter from Tilly - WWII London 1940
I Love the 1911 Census
I Love the 1911 Census
Charlie Percival Vince & Other Goodies
Charlie Percival Vince & Other Goodies
A Million Dollars & A Flat Tire
A Million Dollars & A Flat Tire
1922 Lafayette School Fire - Salt Lake City, Utah
1922 Lafayette School Fire - Salt Lake City, Utah
My Great Grandmother Was Not On The Titanic
My Great Grandmother Was Not On The Titanic
Struck by Lightning & Aaron Burr
Struck by Lightning & Aaron Burr
Searching for Sawyer In Norwich
Searching for Sawyer In Norwich
Uncle Walter Vince's Last Letter
Uncle Walter Vince's Last Letter
How to Skip School in the 1930s
How to Skip School in the 1930s
Genealogy Is Not For Old People
Genealogy Is Not For Old People

Visit ARCHIVE for additional posts.

Sharing The Past (C) 2014-2024. All Rights Reserved. You may not take any images or content from this site without permission. Seriously, it's not cool, or legal. Please contact me if you would like to use any of the images or content. While this website is a labor of love, as an Amazon Associate I may earn from qualifying purchases you access through this site, and may also receive payment for other ads clicked which helps cover the cost of site hosting and research.